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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:19 am Post subject: Fratello Mocca Java - Drip vs. AeroPress vs. Pod
Thought I'd do a little experimentation tonight. I've been drinking a combination of drip brewed coffee using various Fratello whole bean coffees and Fratello coffee pods. I've never really taken a hard look at how these coffees differ in the cup depending on the brew method used. I really love the Mocca Java when brewed in the BUNN NHBX using a standard drip grind and since it's not currently available in Pod form I'm looking at doing a comparison of how the same coffee ends up in the cup when brewed as a home made pod in the OPOD and I'm also interested in a cup brewed using the AeroPress.
First, a few details about the coffee: The Fratello Mocca Java is a blend of two of my Favorite coffees, Ethiopian Sidamo and Sumatra Mandheling. Fratello roasts this to Full City which suits it quite well. I'd say it falls right at what most would consider a medium roast. Each coffee is roasted separately and then blended after the roast since the Ethiopian and Sumatra beans behave differently in the roaster. I broke open a bag of Fratello's Mocca Java Whole Bean and ground a few ounces in the Baratza Maestro Plus at a slightly finer than drip grind. Wow - this is some of the best smelling coffee I've ground in a while.
My first test is a home made pod in the OPOD. I trim down a regular size coffee filter and follow a process much like what VydorScope has described in his excellent posts on how to make home made pods. I use two heaping teaspoons of the slightly finer than drip grind beans I just ground for my first pod. I wet it slightly after placing it in the Gourmet Pod Tray to enable me to better fit the pod to the contours of the pod tray. I pop the tray in the OPOD and set it for an 8oz. drop on the tea setting. It's a tight fit but the latch clicks closed.
Impressions - I'm still amazed how well the OPOD does at getting a full extraction out of a pod. The pusle brewing and 200 degree brew temp really bring out the best of this coffee. The 8oz. drop is full and rich - this is a nice full bodied coffee. It's not at all over roasted. It has a pleasant level of acidity and is a really well balanced cup with a good rich mouth feel. It's no wonder Mocca Java is a popular blend. These two coffees really do complement each other well. Compared to the Bunn Drip Brewer, I'd say this cup holds up just as well. It doesn't seem to lack any of the subtle nuances or flavors I enjoy from the drip brewed cup. It's nice to know you don't have to give up flavor or quality when you brew a single cup vs. a pot. This could definitely be a nice everyday coffee for me. I think I need to talk to Fratello about adding this to our regular Pod offerings!
Tomorrow morning I plan to make a cup in the AeroPress and post my impressions on that and then try to summarize my thoughts on all 3 brew methods.
EDIT #1: OK, so I couldn't wait for tomorrow. Aerobie recommends 175 degree water for best results with the AeroPress. The also recommend a grind half way between drip and espresso. I figured using the slightly more fine than drip that I ground for the pod test would be a good starting point for the AeroPress testing.
The AeroPress comes with a scoop and can brew up to four scoops in one pressing. For my testing I started with a single scoop. Aerobie says that a single scoop will make 5 oz. of american coffee. My first observation is that the AeroPress scoop holds more coffee than I used in my home made pod which brewed a nice rich 8 oz. cup. Hmmmm.
OK, I pop the filter on the AeroPress, add my one scoop and do an 8 oz. drop of hot water from my OPOD into a Pyrex measuring cup. I pour the hot water into the AeroPress up to the 1 cup line and then stir for 10 seconds. I put on the plunger and press into my mug. The AeroPress fits perfectly on the mug by the way.
20 seconds later and I've got about 3 oz. of strong coffee. I add 2 more oz. of the hot water from the Pyrex measuring cup for a 5 oz. americano that should compare with my 8 oz. home made pod brew.
Impressions - It's a very smooth cup of coffee from the AeroPress. Not as full and rich, though as from the OPOD. I'm thinking that my grind is not fine enough. I want to do a just comparison so I'll do a finer grind in the morning and then try again.
Stay tuned.....
EDIT #2: This morning I'm having much better luck with the AeroPress. I've got a finer grind (setting 10 out of 40 on the grinder - I used setting 18 last night) and I'm doing 2 scoops instead of 1 for 10 oz. of American coffee. The results are far better. You can tell as soon as you pour the water in the AeroPress that the finer grind is yielding a better extraction. I stir for 10 seconds and then start the press. The press is taking longer as I expected with 2 scoops and a finer grind.
After the press, I top off the concentrated brew with additional hot water for my americano. This is far better than my attempt last night. The brew is rich and full bodied with an overall cleaner/smoother mouth feel than the Pod brew. That's not necessarily a good thing however, as it feels like something is missing compared to the Pod brew. Some of the more subtle undertones from my Pod brew aren't as pronounced in this cup. Perhaps it is the lower brew temp that is making a difference here? That lower brew temp is also translating to a much lower cup temperature. I haven't measured yet, but from the BUNN NHBX or the OPOD I get a cup almost too hot to drink right away. The coffee from the AeroPress is already plenty cool and must be consumed much more quickly before it becomes too cool.
Although it's against their advice, I can't help but wonder what difference I will see using 200 degree water in the AeroPress. I'm headed back for another cup with hotter water to see what results I get.
EDIT #3: My final AeroPress attempt used near 200 degree water direct from my kettle instead of the slightly cooler water I used previously. It definitely made a difference in the extraction and produced a cup with a bit more "bite" than the 2 previous attempts. I think this is the best of the 3 cups from the AeroPress.
Final Thoughts
Drip Brew from BUNN NHBX -
I start with this as the reference point since the majority of Americans enjoy their coffee from a drip brewer. The BUNN produces a great cup of coffee IMHO. It's hot, the extraction is great and it's fast. 3 minutes for a 10-cup pot. This is usually how we start out the day - one brewed pot of freshly gound whole bean. The Mocca Java is a great from the BUNN. Full bodied and bold without a hint of bitterness and some wonderful subtle undertones you would expect from good Ethiopian and Sumatra beans. The combination of these two makes for a more balnced cup that either on its own.
Pod Brew from Grindmaster OPOD -
After the morning pot from the BUNN is gone, the OPOD reigns supreme. It stays on 24/7 so whenever we get the urge, we can grab our favorite Fratello pod and enjoy a nice cup. The Mocca Java turned out super as a home made pod. If you've never tried following Vydor's tutorial on doing your own home made pods, it's worth a try. The gourmet pod holder on the OPOD holds just enough coffee for me to make a decent 8 oz. cup with a home made pod. I don't feel like I've lost any of the quality from the drip pot. You just can't beat the convenience and quality this machine delivers cup after cup. Definitely need to talk with Fratello.
Press Brew from Aerobie AeroPress -
I'm new to the AeroPress and like it for two reasons:
1. It makes a great cup of coffee, quickly and easily.
2. It's the perfect travel companion for SSC on the go.
How did it do with the Mocca Java? Pretty well I think. My third attempt was definitely the best. I got a great smooth cup that was full of flavor. Folks who dislike French Press coffee because of sediment or grit would love the clean smooth brew from the AeroPress. My only negative about the AeroPress was the amount of coffee required to brew an equivalent cup vs. my home made Pod. I used at least 50% more ground coffee to achieve similar results in the AeroPress. I can see myself using the AeroPress for making concentrated coffee that could be used like an espresso in a latte or cooled down and saved for reconstitution as an iced coffee in the summer.
Does one method yield significantly better results over the others? I can't say that it does. They were all great cups of coffee, although the flavor and mouth feel differed a bit due to the extraction method. I think all 3 methods have their place. What's exciting to me is that I can get an equally great cup from my OPOD as the other two methods. _________________ 190+ Coffee and Tea Pods from The Coffee Artisan, Fratello, Cafejo, Reunion Island, Baronet, Solera, Organa and Black Mountain Gold
Grindmaster and BUNN Brewing Equipment
Baratza Grinders
http://www.thecoffeeartisan.com
Last edited by TheCoffeeArtisan on Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:31 pm; edited 4 times in total
Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Posts: 327 Location: North of Boston, MA
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:01 am Post subject:
Nice review! How about some comparisons of Fratello whole bean vs. pods? Since you carry a number of whole bean Fratello that are also sold in pod form, it would be interesting to see the results. _________________ -Mike
Bunn My Cafe/Grindmaster OPOD
Last edited by mag323 on Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
I'll definitely give it a try. The guys at Fratello have developed a tutorial, sort of a beginners guide to cupping that I could use as the basis for my reviews. Most of the decisions I make with Fratello regarding which coffees get released as pods are based on the results of my own testing which has always been rather subjective as I've just never really had any formal education in the art of cupping.
After this bag of Mocca Java is gone I'll switch to another variety and review that one and so on. Feel free to request a particular whole bean for me to review. Perhaps we can convince socpsy to compare the Fratello whole bean to the pods since he has an SS-1 and can easily compare his fresh ground Fratello beans to the packaged pods. _________________ 190+ Coffee and Tea Pods from The Coffee Artisan, Fratello, Cafejo, Reunion Island, Baronet, Solera, Organa and Black Mountain Gold
Grindmaster and BUNN Brewing Equipment
Baratza Grinders
http://www.thecoffeeartisan.com
Fratello Mocca Java is a blend of two of my Favorite coffees, Ethiopian Sidamo and Sumatra Mandheling
Didn't know this... that Fratello's Mocca Java was a blend these two beans... this makes this a "must try" for me, as I absolutely love... both Ethiopian Sidamo and Sumatra Mandheling coffee!
Last edited by wgm on Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Black Mountain Gold Moka Java is a similar blend. They say they use Ethiopian Moka beans and Peaberry beans from the island of Java (Sumatra) in their blend. As popular as that pod is on this forum, I thought I had to try Fratello's Mocca Java in pod form. Based on the testing I've done, I can say that it would make a great pod. It holds its own from the OPOD vs. the drip or AeroPress.
Chad _________________ 190+ Coffee and Tea Pods from The Coffee Artisan, Fratello, Cafejo, Reunion Island, Baronet, Solera, Organa and Black Mountain Gold
Grindmaster and BUNN Brewing Equipment
Baratza Grinders
http://www.thecoffeeartisan.com
Perhaps we can convince socpsy to compare the Fratello whole bean to the pods since he has an SS-1 and can easily compare his fresh ground Fratello beans to the packaged pods.
Right now, the only pod/bean combo I can test is the Fratello Dixie Voodoo (which means I better get together an order for more Fratello beans!). I'll give a go in my SS-1 either today or tomorrow. It will make a nice diversion from grading papers.
EDIT (several hours later) : Unfortunately, my scale is not the most accurate in the world, but I tried to equate the amount of ground beans with that found in the pod. I used Fratello Dixie Voodoo beans and a Fratello Dixie Voodoo pod (which list at 9.5g according the Coffee Artisan Website).
I used my Cuisinart SS-1 set on regular brew and 8oz.
Results: The grind brew was slightly darker in color. However, I could not tell any difference between the two cups with respect to taste. Both were quite rich and full-bodied just as I like them to be. As far as I'm concerned, the pods held up quite well to the beans. With that said, though, with beans you have a bit more flexibility to tailor the cups to your taste by reducing or increasing the amount of the grind.
I don't know if the BOLD setting on the SS-1 would make any difference. After consuming 16oz of Dixie Voodoo I'm a bit too charged up to give that a go!
Disclaimer: Your mileage may vary. I am not an expert coffee taster. I've never played one on television nor have I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express for that matter. _________________ Dave
Cuisinart SS-1
Bunn MyCafe (office)
Bunn MyCafe (home in closet)
Melitta 1:1 (retired) Coffee Preference: Medium to Dark
Like you commented, I find 175 to be too mild in the Aeropress- I opt for 185-190. I also prefer a finer grind than recommended. This gives a very espresso-like result. _________________ K-cup reviews Pod reviews
Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 2866 Location: Baltimore
Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject:
Resurrecting an old thread here...
Has anyone else ever directly compared pods to French Press, drip, etc., using the same beans? I find myself curious to try this using Fratello beans, though I could get BMG beans at the local grocery store. Over at CoffeeGeek there are a few members who feel pretty strongly that pods just don't measure up, contrary to what some have found here. I'd like to see how big of a difference there is, if any, while holding the beans constant. _________________ Grindmaster OPOD, Keurig B40, Nespresso D90, Clever Coffee Dripper + Hario Skerton mill
Josh's Pod Guide, K-cup Line-up, and Nespresso Encapsulation
I've become very fascinated by the AeroPress lately, and finally ordered one on Friday.
I had this idea I could bring it and some pods with me on travels. Hot water is normally not difficult to find.
Have anyone tried to rip open a pod and brew it in the AeroPress? Was it any good? _________________ Reviews from Zrrrzzt's Quest for The Perfect Pod
Bunn My Café, Senseo Latte Select, Suncana SunCafé, Bialetti Brikka, AeroPress, French Press, Handpresso Wild, Mugs of Excellence
I took a Fratello - French Saigon Dark pod, added 7 oz hot water (same amount I use with my Senseo). Stir, press and Boom: Good Coffee!
I will experiment more later, but so far this is very promising. _________________ Reviews from Zrrrzzt's Quest for The Perfect Pod
Bunn My Café, Senseo Latte Select, Suncana SunCafé, Bialetti Brikka, AeroPress, French Press, Handpresso Wild, Mugs of Excellence
Joined: 23 Aug 2008 Posts: 2866 Location: Baltimore
Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject:
As good as (or better or worse than) the same pod brewed in your Senseo? _________________ Grindmaster OPOD, Keurig B40, Nespresso D90, Clever Coffee Dripper + Hario Skerton mill
Josh's Pod Guide, K-cup Line-up, and Nespresso Encapsulation
As good as (or better or worse than) the same pod brewed in your Senseo?
I'll try to do a side by side tomorrow. Just had to try it once tonight.
I think I will need to use a little less water with the AeroPress than with the Senseo.
I'm fully aware that what I'm doing here is not the way the AP is intended to be used, but the first test ended with a smooth and tasty cup of coffee. _________________ Reviews from Zrrrzzt's Quest for The Perfect Pod
Bunn My Café, Senseo Latte Select, Suncana SunCafé, Bialetti Brikka, AeroPress, French Press, Handpresso Wild, Mugs of Excellence
Side by Side Comparison AeroPress and Senseo Latte Select with pods # 001
Pods used: The Coffee Artisan - Dark Side
I boiled water and used some of it to preheat the two identical cups. I let the water in the boiler cool down for a couple of minutes and started my Senseo.
Brewing time.
One pod in the Senseo and tore one open for the AeroPress. Did my usual procedure with the Senseo (8 oz done by two single 4 oz rounds, my version of pulse brewing).
Had 8 oz of water in the AeroPress, stirred and pressed. I'm doing the AeroPress Lungo style for now. Maybe I'll do the americano version at a later time.
Visual: The cup from the Senseo had the usual nice Crema layer, the AeroPress looked silky smooth and clean. I poured some coffee from each cup into a glass cup. Coffee from the Senseo was clearly darker (as suspected after yesterdays quick and dirty test).
Taste: From the Senseo the Dark Side was the usual great cup. The AeroPress presents something I choose to call same but very different. Smooth, and not even a hint of the typical dark roast characteristics. I suspect this might come from the amount of water used. Still pretty aromatic though.
Winner round # 001: Senseo Latte Select
I have now re-read the original post from Chad and read more about the AeroPress.
Everything suggests I'll have to use around 5 oz of water for the AeroPress to make it comparable to the 8 oz from my Senseo.
Anyway, I choose to do this step by step. Tomorrow I hope to find time to do a new side by side with 7 oz of water in the AeroPress.
Still very pleased with the AeroPress. The process of making coffee is incredible easy. _________________ Reviews from Zrrrzzt's Quest for The Perfect Pod
Bunn My Café, Senseo Latte Select, Suncana SunCafé, Bialetti Brikka, AeroPress, French Press, Handpresso Wild, Mugs of Excellence
Side by Side Comparison AeroPress and Senseo Latte Select with pods # 002
Pods used: The Coffee Artisan - Dark Side
I changed my mind today and skipped right to 5 oz of water for the AeroPress version. Or approximately 5 oz to be correct. 5 oz is 1.47something dl so I used 1.5 dl.
Smell: I forgot this yesterday, but today I took a good sniff from each cup. Maybe a bit sharper on the smoke side from the Senseo cup. But rather similiar (ok, I've got a light cold these days so not a perfect nose)
Visual: Senseo still wonderful crema VS silky smooth from AeroPress. When I poured over to clear glass cups the brews had close to exactly the same color.
Taste: The Senseo of course was as good as always, but at 5 oz the AeroPress made a really good cup of coffee from the pod.
The AP now had a touch of smoky tones and all the other aromas where more clearly defined.
I would describe the coffee from AP as a more refined version. Personally, in this case, I preferred the "raw" Senseo version.
The Senseo had a broader specter of taste, especially when it came to acidity, while the AP had smoothed it out somehow.
Winner round # 002: Both coffees where very good. I still preferred the version from my Senseo Latte Select, but I suspect it could go the other way with another pod. When I pick a dark roast I like it to have a little edge.
Conclusion: My mission was to see if I could use an AeroPress to make good coffee from pods. I could Now I can bring my AP and some pods with me and be guaranteed a could cup, as long as there is hot water available.
It would be interesting if someone with more coffee tasting experience and better coffee lingo could do similar tests. _________________ Reviews from Zrrrzzt's Quest for The Perfect Pod
Bunn My Café, Senseo Latte Select, Suncana SunCafé, Bialetti Brikka, AeroPress, French Press, Handpresso Wild, Mugs of Excellence
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After consuming 16oz of Dixie Voodoo I'm a bit too charged up to give that a go!
Dave
