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New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks

Dolce Gusto, Nespresso, Lavazza, and others.

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Re: New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks - This F

Postby hotwasabipeas » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:46 pm

The Verismo has launched and is available on the Starbucks website: http://www.starbucksstore.com/verismo/verismo,default,sc.html?cm_mmc=Sbuxcom-_-ShopTab-_-PromoSpot-_-Verismo

I am surprised to see that it also does brewed coffee and they have 4 different coffees available so far (Veranda Blend, House Blend, Caffe Verona and Pike Place). I wonder if this is making Green Mountain a little nervous :o
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Re: New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks - This F

Postby EricBNC » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:58 pm

The espresso capsule is 8g, same as the Dolce Gusto - I wonder if these SBX capsules will work in my DC Melody...
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Re: New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks - This F

Postby jar » Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:46 pm

If someone has any capsules they could send me I'll compare them to several systems.
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Re: New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks - This F

Postby jbviau » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:38 pm

hotwasabipeas wrote:The Verismo has launched and is available on the Starbucks website: http://www.starbucksstore.com/verismo/verismo,default,sc.html?cm_mmc=Sbuxcom-_-ShopTab-_-PromoSpot-_-Verismo

If you click over to "Operating Manuals & Warranty Guides" you can access the "Quick Start Guide," which mentions two little tidbits I thought were interesting (among others):

1. [for brewed coffee, not espresso] - "Important: Just before brewing, remove foil freshness tab from bottom of pod (to expose the filter)"
2. This is, indeed, a K-fee system (see last page).
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Re: New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks - This F

Postby cortadito » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:13 pm

$1 per Starbucks pod is just too high. I was paying about $0.58 per CBTL Italian Espresso capsule under Amazon's Subscribe & Save service. However, just noticed that the former 15% discount that came with the service has dropped to only 5%, so the per-capsule cost is now up to $0.69. In any case, I'm really happy with the CBTL system and Italian Espresso in particular, and I don't see myself switching.
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Verismo - Starbucks

Postby Barefootgirl » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:49 am

Starbucks just sent me an email offer for the Verismo machine.

Is this nothing more than a dressed up Keurig?

No reviews online yet?

Thanks, BFG
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Re: Verismo - Starbucks

Postby jbviau » Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:56 pm

See here (one section down). The first review is linked on p. 2. If you're comparing it to other systems, Verismo reminds me more of a CBTL machine than a Keurig since it apparently brews both filter coffee and espresso.
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Re: New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks - This F

Postby rhfil » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:32 pm

My understanding of the main difference between espresso and regular coffee is that, other than the beans and ground, the espresso requires steam under pressure to bring out the oils from the grounds which gives espresso its flavor. And to a certain degree the greater the pressure the greater the espesso flavor. How do the coffee/espresso machines do both types of coffee well? Does selecting coffee instead of espresso change the machine from generating steam to just hot water or does it just change the amount of water produced into the pod?
From reading the quick start instructions on the Verismo there are differences between brewing coffee and brewing espresso. 1. You push the "cofffee" button for cofffee which seems to produce more liquid as evidenced by the larger cup pictured. 2. You push "espresso" to make espresso which seems to produce less liquid as evidenced by the smaller cup pictured. 3. You remove the foil cover on the bottom of the coffee pod exposing the filter and obviously allowing the heated water to flow through the pod without restriction. 4. You do not remove any bottom on the espresso pod thus restricting the flow of the heated water or steam. 5. You have to run the "espresso" option a second time without the pod in the machine for some reason.
From anyone's experience with machines that do both espresso and coffee, perhaps CBTL, how do the machines do both types of coffee? Do they do them both well? How does the difference in the procedures with the coffee pods and the espresso pod make a difference in the Verismo?
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Re: New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks - This F

Postby jar » Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:55 pm

rhfil wrote:From anyone's experience with machines that do both espresso and coffee, perhaps CBTL, how do the machines do both types of coffee? Do they do them both well? How does the difference in the procedures with the coffee pods and the espresso pod make a difference in the Verismo?


Generally for espresso it is best to use hot water under pressure instead of steam (but many cheaper espresso machines use steam because it is cheap) and so they have a high pressure pump to force the hot water through finely ground and moderately tamped coffee.

Brewing coffee is done at much lower pressure and over longer period of time.

The Caffitaly (CBTL) system (and several others) use a two stage pump as well as a modified capsule to brew coffee. On the coffee and tea capsules used in the Cafitaly system the bottom of the capsule has a hole covered by just aluminum foil so that the lower pressure of the brew system opens the flow pathway.

The espresso capsules though get split by the higher (15-19 BAR) pressure.

In this picture you can see the bottom of different capsules. The two top ones are Cafitaly capsules, coffee on left and espresso on right.

Image

Note the cut out in the coffee capsule.
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Re: New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks - This F

Postby rhfil » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:22 pm

So my understanding of the espresso method was off. Pressure also allows you to raise the temperature of water by preventing it from turning into steam. That is how pressure cookers work and why one should use one when boiling something at altitude. So the pressured water of the good espresso systems also allows for much higher temperatures. Anyone have any readings on the temperatures? In the CBTl is the water coming out when coffee is selected colder than when espresso is selected?
The three black pods in your picture seem to have indents in their bottoms. Are those weak points designed to burst under pressure? My understanding of the Lavazza system is that it punctures the top and bottom of the pods. How does that retain pressure? Or do the release punctures retain enough of the pressure like the espresso ground holders?
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Re: New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks - This F

Postby jar » Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:31 pm

rhfil wrote:So my understanding of the espresso method was off. Pressure also allows you to raise the temperature of water by preventing it from turning into steam. That is how pressure cookers work and why one should use one when boiling something at altitude. So the pressured water of the good espresso systems also allows for much higher temperatures. Anyone have any readings on the temperatures? In the CBTl is the water coming out when coffee is selected colder than when espresso is selected?
The three black pods in your picture seem to have indents in their bottoms. Are those weak points designed to burst under pressure? My understanding of the Lavazza system is that it punctures the top and bottom of the pods. How does that retain pressure? Or do the release punctures retain enough of the pressure like the espresso ground holders?


For the best espresso you still don't want the temperature high, preferably around the same temperature as for brewing.

The temperature seems about the same when brewing coffee, tea, hot chocolate or espresso.

Lavazza machines use a variety of different system.

I don't remember what the Lavazza Blue does. Sorry.

Nespresso actually puncture the capsules, the Illy uses pressure to pop the bottom open.

As a reference, from the Cafitaly coffee capsule and clockwise, Cafitaly espresso, Nespresso, Illy, Lavazza Blue and a K-Cup.
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Re: Verismo - Starbucks

Postby hurley81388 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:37 am

very curious to see how well this makes brewed coffee. not a big espresso drinker but i could be interested if the price of the brewed coffee pods comes down and the taste is better than keurig.

also very interested to see what this means for starbucks k-cups...
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Re: New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks - This F

Postby rhfil » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:14 am

If I remember correctly from a machine comparison done I thought someplace in here between the Nespresso and the Lavazza Blue the Blue beat the Nespresso with every type of coffee. One of the main differences in the espressos seemed to be with the quality of the crema and that seemed to be a function of the punctures of the pods. The Blue more closely replicates the tiny holes of an espresso filter thus producing a crema closer to that of a barista machine. It would seem to me that the pressure of a system which relies on bursting the pod would not be as good as one which used tiny holes. Pressure is produced by pushing something against a restricter. Once the restricter bursts the pressure drops significantly. In a system which bursts the pod the pressure is higher before the burst. But in a system that produces pressure by pushing against a steady resistance will keep pressure more consistent.
I would think that a company that produces an espresso single serve machine which uses the Lavazza method in a low cost mass produced machine with decent coffee pods available in a reliable supply system would win the market. I wonder if the GMCR-Lavazza machine scheduled to be available late this year or early next might be just that machine?
Does anyone have an idea how the Verismo punctures its pods?
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Re: New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks - This F

Postby jar » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:23 am

rhfil wrote:If I remember correctly from a machine comparison done I thought someplace in here between the Nespresso and the Lavazza Blue the Blue beat the Nespresso with every type of coffee. One of the main differences in the espressos seemed to be with the quality of the crema and that seemed to be a function of the punctures of the pods. The Blue more closely replicates the tiny holes of an espresso filter thus producing a crema closer to that of a barista machine. It would seem to me that the pressure of a system which relies on bursting the pod would not be as good as one which used tiny holes. Pressure is produced by pushing something against a restricter. Once the restricter bursts the pressure drops significantly. In a system which bursts the pod the pressure is higher before the burst. But in a system that produces pressure by pushing against a steady resistance will keep pressure more consistent.
I would think that a company that produces an espresso single serve machine which uses the Lavazza method in a low cost mass produced machine with decent coffee pods available in a reliable supply system would win the market. I wonder if the GMCR-Lavazza machine scheduled to be available late this year or early next might be just that machine?
Does anyone have an idea how the Verismo punctures its pods?


The pumps are what produces the pressure, generally between 15 and 19 BAR when producing espresso. Whether the exit holes are produced by piercing the capsule with some form of needle or by designing in weaker points in the capsule really changes little.

The advantage to the Illy system is that after leaving the capsule your espresso touches nothing except the cup. There is no espresso pathway, no spout that might retain remnants of early drops.
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Re: New Verismo Single-Serve Machine from Starbucks - This F

Postby jbviau » Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:43 am

rhfil wrote:If I remember correctly from a machine comparison done I thought someplace in here between the Nespresso and the Lavazza Blue...

Maybe you're thinking of this thread? Go fish. ;)

I see you're trying to tie all of this together and relate it to Verismo, which is good--don't want the thread to drift *too* far off-topic.
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