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Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby forhoover » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:34 pm

Unit Under Discussion:
Keurig coffee brewer SELECT Model B77 (Costco purchased), which appears to be the same as the Platinum B70 (and possibly many others);

Description of Problems:
There were six problems with this unit, at various times, and in no particular order were:
1. Hot water constantly drained/streamed into the 60-ounce reservoir while coffee was brewing.
2. The Brew light would stay ON.
3. Water kept streaming into the coffee cup after the coffee was finished brewing.
4. The De-scale light would stay "ON", after the unit was de-scaled many, many times with 60-ounces of full-strength 5% vinegar.
5. It would yield various volumes of coffee, unrelated to the initial requested setting.
6. The "Air-Purge", programmed to "blast" air for a few seconds after the coffee was brewed, quit working well before one-year service was reached.

Discussion:
This unit finally became completely unusable after only 14-months of disservice. I don't have enough time in my life to address all these problems, but let me concentrate on issue #6.
The unit was finally disassembled with help from the detailed post by "switch998". This unit WAS NOT made to be disassembled or repaired (apparently Keurig doesn't do this, and I now fully understand why). Replacement parts are not readily available, or if found, would not be affordable for the one-repair-unit-person.
The Air-Purge is a 4-piston wobble-plate air-pump, driven by 12 Vdc (Model KPM27H) made by Koge Electronics Co Ltd, China.
I don't know if some of these 6 issues are the result of HardWare(HW) or SoftWare/Firmware(SW) malfunctions. The air-pump problem was neither. It somehow became wet, rusted & corroded, and finally stopped working. I could not find from where the water came. The input resistance to the rotor was open-circuit (one mega-Ohm), although when it was cleaned up, the resistance reduced to about 20-Ohm, and then worked (but then at this point, it was destroyed & was not useable. Everything in the motor was corroded (housing, rotor, commutators, slip rings). The motor was destroyed while opening its rear cover/bearing. The air pump remained OK.). The failure of the unit was a usage-design-malfunction of the motor, not a HW or SW issue. The motor would have run for many (days, weeks?) if it had not been corroded. The motor may have lasted longer if it had been mounted upside-down, although I never could see from where the water came.

Personal Comments/Observations:
One would desire 1) a Schematic Diagram, 2) a Wiring Diagram, and 3) a Theory of Operation description if determined to reliably repair these units. Would Keruig provide this information?
With the covers off, this unit is a complex mass of wires, electrically driven pumps (air & water), electrically-switched water-valves, many clear tubes, microprocessor, etc. A cup of coffee should not be that complicated to make, even though one has the technology to do it.
Keurig seems to readily replace failed units. Could this be another case of the old "razor/razor blade" reasoning? Over a significant period of time, the costs of the K-Cups would greatly exceed the original cost of the unit. Keruig should consider "giving away" the units at a very low price. They would then make up any "losses" with future K-Cup purchases. With this philosophy though, they should make the unit more reliable, in order to sell more K-Cups.
Would it be beneficial if someone with the where-with-all would start a Class Action lawsuit against Green Mountain, Keurig, et.al. for inflicting the American public with the pain, suffering and inconvenience of this device?
I wonder it the Japanese (who are very quality conscious) buy this Keurig brewer?
Photos can be provided if desired.
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby jar » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:38 pm

forhoover wrote:Could this be another case of the old "razor/razor blade" reasoning? Over a significant period of time, the costs of the K-Cups would greatly exceed the original cost of the unit. Keruig should consider "giving away" the units at a very low price. They would then make up any "losses" with future K-Cup purchases.


But the razor blades had to be good enough to get folk to keep buying them for that to work.
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby jbviau » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:04 pm

Welcome, forhoover! Not being very handy, I'm impressed by anyone who does this sort of thing. Sorry to hear about the trouble. Did you ask Keurig for a warranty replacement before the disassembly?

forhoover wrote:I wonder it the Japanese (who are very quality conscious) buy this Keurig brewer?

These machines are pretty much unknown outside of N. America, as far as I can tell.

forhoover wrote:Photos can be provided if desired.

Yes, please! Just use a hosting site like Photobucket and paste links with [img] tags.

jar wrote:
forhoover wrote:Could this be another case of the old "razor/razor blade" reasoning? Over a significant period of time, the costs of the K-Cups would greatly exceed the original cost of the unit. Keruig should consider "giving away" the units at a very low price. They would then make up any "losses" with future K-Cup purchases.

But the razor blades had to be good enough to get folk to keep buying them for that to work.

Good one.
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby forhoover » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:33 pm

Eight photos have been uploaded. These numbers below appear when hovering over the pic. See:
http://s1084.photobucket.com/albums/j41 ... er/Keurig/
2495_AirPump.jpg
2498_BottomView.jpg
2500_RearView.jpg
2401_ItsLeftSide.jpg
2503_TopViewRear.jpg
2509_Tang,withoutBarb.jpg
2515_ThreeOtherCovers.jpg
2529_RearCover,ViewFromInside.jpg
The Air Pump could have been changed-out if a replacement could be found, but the many other problems with the Keurig were not solved. One would have a fighting chance if a Schematic Diagram, a Wiring Diagram, and a Theory of Operation description could be had. But so be it, this is the economy in which we live.
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby jbviau » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:06 pm

Thanks. I'm picking one to post directly in this thread for the simple (and tangential) reason that it reminds me of what it might look like under Darth Vader's helmet:

Image
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby forhoover » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:14 pm

Update of Earlier Post, for what it's worth:
The Air-Purge Pump is a 3-piston (in an earlier post I had miss-stated 4-piston) wobble-plate air-pump, driven by 12 Vdc (Model KPM27H) made by Koge Electronics Co Ltd, China. I contacted Koge for a replacement, but received no reply. I assume that this will be true for ALL Keurig replacement parts.
The Air-Purge Pump/Motor unit was reassembled from the earlier takedown, and the motor was then tested with a laboratory DC power supply and found to draw 0.065 Amps at 12 Vdc, yielding a motor dynamic impedance of 184 Ohms. The unpowered motor read about 24 DC Ohms when tested with a VOM (something is incorrect here). The Air Pump now seemed to perform quite well. The Air Pump was always OK, only the motor was internally corroded.
When the Air-Purge Pump/Motor was reinstalled in the Keurig B77 SELECT brewer and plugged in, the unit would continually/constantly spew a stream of water into the coffee cup as long as the power switch was ON. This means that the Water Pump works quite well, but is not controlled properly.
It was later found that one of the solenoid water valves was constantly powered with 12 Vdc (this should not happen – a microprocessor control problem?)
Additionally, when the unit was plugged into a wall live outlet, and the power switch was turned OFF, both solenoid water valves were powered-on with 12 Vdc, and both solenoids became hot to the touch (again, should not have happened. Could this be a fire hazard?).
The unit was grounded quite well (they did something right).
I haven't found/uncovered/discovered the location of the microprocessor (under the LCD display panel?), as of yet.
I really don't know why I'm doing all this.
The Theory-of-Operation of the Keurig brewer is still unknown to me. It is difficult to fix anything if you don't know exactly what component is malfunctioning.
I wonder why Keurig is so liberal with their free replacement brewers. Could it be that they want you to keep buying the expensive K-Cups, unlike the razor/razor-blade theory? If they made millions of these unreliable Keurig brewers (assumed to be cheap to make in China), they may not lose too much if they gave them away for free after the initial purchase.
In a Feb 11, 2011 "4th Replacement" post, Anonymous wrote: "goes to show they are making their $$$ on the K-Cups if they can ship these many brewers out for free"
I wonder if "switch998" has found any further info on these brewers that might be helpful/useful to others.
After World War II, Japan was well known for its unreliable products, but later, the Deming prize, established in December 1950 in honor of W. Edwards Deming, was designed to reward Japanese companies for major advances in quality improvement, and Japan then did a 180. Will China ever follow suite?
Again, it might be beneficial if someone with the where-with-all would start a Class Action Lawsuit against Green Mountain Coffee Roasters Inc, Keurig, et.al. for inflicting the American Public with all the pain, suffering and inconvenience of this device? There is more than enough damming evidence in the many Keurig problems posted on the Internet
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby jar » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:30 pm

forhoover wrote:Again, it might be beneficial if someone with the where-with-all would start a Class Action Lawsuit against Green Mountain Coffee Roasters Inc, Keurig, et.al. for inflicting the American Public with all the pain, suffering and inconvenience of this device? There is more than enough damming evidence in the many Keurig problems posted on the Internet


Come one now.

It's a coffee machine.

It may be an inconvenience but I see no reason to even think about a class action law suit.

If the machines are unreliable, then just stop buying them.

Folk in the US are just plain to sue crazy.
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby jbviau » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:36 pm

forhoover wrote:I wonder why Keurig is so liberal with their free replacement brewers. Could it be that they want you to keep buying the expensive K-Cups, unlike the razor/razor-blade theory? If they made millions of these unreliable Keurig brewers (assumed to be cheap to make in China), they may not lose too much if they gave them away for free after the initial purchase.

I guess I'd say "Yes, but..." Yes, they make more money on the coffee (well-established fact by now). But, they usually only give the brewers away as replacements during the warranty period. Otherwise, they'll just offer you a [not-so-great] deal on a new one. If the machines were totally worthless, I don't imagine they'd be strict with respect to the warranty.

forhoover wrote:After World War II, Japan was well known for its unreliable products, but later, the Deming prize, established in December 1950 in honor of W. Edwards Deming, was designed to reward Japanese companies for major advances in quality improvement, and Japan then did a 180. Will China ever follow suit?

I'm wary of the knee-jerk reaction against "Made in China" products. If everything they made were truly bad/unreliable, I don't imagine so many things would be made there (regardless of how cheap it might be to do so). My OPOD was made in China, for example, and it's great, a real workhorse.
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby cherokee » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:06 am

Hi all,
Thanks switch998 for the disassembly guide. The units top clips are extremely difficult to undo. After pulling up on the top, enough to make a gap on the left side, I used a screwdriver looking tool, that has a 90 degree bend at the end, to push the clip on the far left side (facing the unit through the gap). There are four clips. I used a butter knife to get the next two clips, going clockwise around the top, sliding the knife in from the front of the unit through the gap. The last clip, I used the screwdriver with the 90 degree bend again. This time coming from the back of the unit. These clips are very stiff and alot of force was needed to get the top off of the unit. But, it was worth it, as the unit is working now. The issue was exactly as switch998 said. The air pump motor was not spinning and I was getting very little water coming out during the brew cycle(less than an ounce). The air pump is mounted vertically on the left side(facing the unit).There was no water in the pump chamber, but the motor wasn't turning. I didn't have to desolder the wires or remove the tubing. I took the air pump loose from it's mount and removed the three screws from the bottom to open up the pump chamber. I turned the motor shaft with a pair of needle nose pliers, very gently of course. It was stiff to turn, at first, then got easier the more I turned. Then I hooked up a 12v power supply to the terminals and it ran perfectly. I just pulled up the shrink wrap a little and wrapped a couple of small wires around the connections and attached them to the power supply. I reassemble the air pump,the back and the bottom just enough to mount the water tank. I've run about 20 brew cycles with different cup sizes. It has been perfect every time! Again, thanks switch998 for the instructions. I probably would've just thrown the keurig b70 out, but your guide seemed pretty straight forward, so I thought I'd give it a try. Now I have a working machine again.
Thanks,Cherokee.
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby jbviau » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:56 am

Welcome, Cherokee. Glad you got your machine working again. Was it out of warranty?
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby cherokee » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:17 pm

Hi jbviau,
I got it from a friend of a friend. I'm not sure how old it is, or if it is still under warranty. It was pretty clean inside. It's a platinum B70 model.
Cherokee.
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby RacerR » Tue May 03, 2011 8:32 am

Hello I'm new here, this is my 1st post. I'm very glad to have found this information.

My B70 has just started exhibiting this problem.

Has anyone replaced the pump with an after market part successfully?

With this replacement part (http://www.clarksol.com/html/prodspecsKPMRPump.cfm), should the 6v or 12v pump be used?

Thanks, any information on this is appreciated.

-Rob
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby jbviau » Tue May 03, 2011 9:27 am

Welcome, Rob. I'm not sure, but hopefully someone will chime in before too long.
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby forhoover » Tue May 03, 2011 2:44 pm

RacerR wrote:Hello I'm new here, this is my 1st post. I'm very glad to have found this information.

My B70 has just started exhibiting this problem.

Has anyone replaced the pump with an after market part successfully?

With this replacement part (http://www.clarksol.com/html/prodspecsKPMRPump.cfm), should the 6v or 12v pump be used?

Thanks, any information on this is appreciated.

-Rob


I do not believe you can buy an air (gas) pump (not talking about a water pump) from your quoted reference, since it appears to be ONLY for OEM (original equipment manufacturers, i.e., big volume manufacturers/buyers). My B77 was 12 Vdc, as printed on its label. Are you sure the air pump is the problem.
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Re: Dissassembly + Repair Guide - Keurig B70 Platinum

Postby forhoover » Tue May 03, 2011 3:23 pm

forhoover wrote:
RacerR wrote:Hello I'm new here, this is my 1st post. I'm very glad to have found this information.

My B70 has just started exhibiting this problem.

Has anyone replaced the pump with an after market part successfully?

With this replacement part (http://www.clarksol.com/html/prodspecsKPMRPump.cfm), should the 6v or 12v pump be used?

Thanks, any information on this is appreciated.

-Rob


I do not believe you can buy an air (gas) pump (not talking about a water pump) from your quoted reference, since it appears to be ONLY for OEM (original equipment manufacturers, i.e., big volume manufacturers/buyers). My B77 was 12 Vdc, as printed on its label. Are you sure the air pump is the problem.


Looks like you can buy just one (the 12Vdc one is $21.00 plus S/H). Disassembly of the unit is arduous. Mine had soooo many problems I wasn't sure what was going on. The gas pump can be disassembled and "fixed". My "gas pump problem was the DC motor", not the pump itself. If that's your problem, then go for it; it's worth the approx $21.00.
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